Discussion:
Fairphone - a free Android device?
Carsten Agger
2014-07-31 10:05:44 UTC
Permalink
I just received my Fairphone. It came with a widget to "install Google
apps" - when I clicked it, I was told that the phone is missing
important functionality as it does not include Google apps, which they
"unfortunately" don't have a license to distribute.

I then deleted the widget.

In th instruction folder under "your rights", we're told that all
applicable software licenses are in the "Legal information" section
under the "about phone" entry in the settings.

Entering there, I find that the only point is "Open Source Licenses".
These are listed in a not very intuitive way, but seems mostly to be GPL
and standard Android/Apache licenses. So apparently the Fairphone does
not have any proprietary software installed by default. So maybe buying
a Fairphone is one of the easiest (admittedly not cheapest) ways of
getting a free vanilla Android system?

Best,
Carsten
--
http://www.modspil.dk
https://blogs.fsfe.org/agger/

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Tobias Platen
2014-07-31 10:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carsten Agger
I just received my Fairphone. It came with a widget to "install
Google apps" - when I clicked it, I was told that the phone is
missing important functionality as it does not include Google apps,
which they "unfortunately" don't have a license to distribute.
I then deleted the widget.
In th instruction folder under "your rights", we're told that all
applicable software licenses are in the "Legal information"
section under the "about phone" entry in the settings.
Entering there, I find that the only point is "Open Source
Licenses". These are listed in a not very intuitive way, but seems
mostly to be GPL and standard Android/Apache licenses. So
apparently the Fairphone does not have any proprietary software
installed by default. So maybe buying a Fairphone is one of the
easiest (admittedly not cheapest) ways of getting a free vanilla
Android system?
Best, Carsten
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Hello,

There are no non-free apps installed by default, but it does include
non-free drivers and firmwares. It is also missing F-Droid which
should be included on a free Android device.

Tobias Platen
Carsten Agger
2014-07-31 11:22:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tobias Platen
There are no non-free apps installed by default, but it does include
non-free drivers and firmwares.
This would make it as free as CyanogenMod or Ubuntu Phone, I suppose,
but less free than Replicant.
Post by Tobias Platen
It is also missing F-Droid which
should be included on a free Android device.
Yes, I missed that until I installed it. They also shouldn't ask people
to install Google Apps without warning against the serious consequences
for freedom and (in this case very much so) privacy. I'll submit a
message about that in their support forum.
--
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https://blogs.fsfe.org/agger/

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Heiki “Repentinus” Ojasild
2014-07-31 11:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tobias Platen
There are no non-free apps installed by default, but it does include
non-free drivers and firmwares. It is also missing F-Droid which
should be included on a free Android device.
That is definitely not a prerequisite for an Android system to be
considered free, but merely your personal preference.
--
Heiki ?Repentinus? Ojasild
FSFE Fellowship Representative
mailto:repentinus at fsfe.org
xmpp:repentinus at jabber.fsfe.org
http://blogs.fsfe.org/repentinus/

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Michael Kesper
2014-07-31 12:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Heiki “Repentinus” Ojasild
Post by Tobias Platen
There are no non-free apps installed by default, but it does include
non-free drivers and firmwares. It is also missing F-Droid which
should be included on a free Android device.
That is definitely not a prerequisite for an Android system to be
considered free, but merely your personal preference.
No, but probably for a free Android system one wants to use.

Best wishes
Michael
Paul Hänsch
2014-07-31 14:13:26 UTC
Permalink
Tobias Platen <tobias at platen-software.de>, Thu, 31 Jul 2014 12:36:26
Post by Tobias Platen
There are no non-free apps installed by default, but it does include
non-free drivers and firmwares.
Yes, the project let their chip supplier rip them off. Probably despite
better knowledge. The non-free drivers reduce the hackability of the
device drastically.
They prevent the user from updating the system kernel, leave questions
about possible anti features in this kernel, and prevent the
implementation of kernel based techniques that are not shipped with the
default installation.
They represent also a grave obstacle to security patches.
Since the drivers are necessary for operating the device and are
tailored to the specific kernel version, this even affects features
which are unrelated to these drivers.

I think the project hasn't kept its promise on openness.
Post by Tobias Platen
It is also missing F-Droid which should be included on a free Android
device.
My toaster is also missing F-Droid... oh how those chains weigh on me.
"Non-free" means to restrict the user, not to neglect promoting
applications, which from the viewpoint of the hardware supplier might be
arbitrary.

Don't get me wrong, I love F-Droid, but we are not even close to a
point where we can outright *expect* device vendors to include it in
their default distribution. There is a lot of more important things
obstructing the way there.

I cannot recommend any current smart phone. Non-free drivers cripple
the Firefox, Ubuntu and Jolla phone just as much. The problem is much
graver than what we are used to from driver situations on the PC
market.
However the Notebook market is becoming affected by the same problems.
Our old computers are getting replaced with a class of devices on which
the hardware isn't interchangeable anymore, and which are limited to
vendor supplied kernels to be operational at all.
--
Paul H?nsch ?? Webmaster, System-Hacker
??????
Jabber: paul at jabber.fsfe.org ?? Free Software Foundation Europe
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Torsten Grote
2014-07-31 15:47:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tobias Platen
There are no non-free apps installed by default
I am sorry I have to disagree here. It is heavily filled with non-free
software.

When I still had a Fairphone, I tried to make it as free as possible, but
eventually gave up. Maybe this is still useful to you:

https://github.com/grote/fairphone-barebone/

Please note that if you really want to use both SIM card slots, this currently
removes too much.

Kind Regards,
Torsten
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Carsten Agger
2014-07-31 15:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Torsten Grote
Post by Tobias Platen
There are no non-free apps installed by default
I am sorry I have to disagree here. It is heavily filled with non-free
software.
When I still had a Fairphone, I tried to make it as free as possible, but
https://github.com/grote/fairphone-barebone/
Please note that if you really want to use both SIM card slots, this currently
removes too much.
Which apps are under a proprietary license? The "About" section in the
settings doesn't list any proprietary licenses at all. Only "Open
source" licenses, mainly Apache and GPL.

(I see the firmware as a separate, though also important, issue. But
Cyanogenmod also includes proprietary firmware, so the Fairphone might
be "as good" as that and a better option than phones which are hardcoded
to demand you provide a Google account.)
--
http://www.modspil.dk
https://blogs.fsfe.org/agger/

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Torsten Grote
2014-08-01 10:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carsten Agger
Which apps are under a proprietary license? The "About" section in the
settings doesn't list any proprietary licenses at all. Only "Open
source" licenses, mainly Apache and GPL.
Proprietary software usually does not require a license to be shipped with it
to end-users and only sometimes you have an EULA.

When looking for proprietary software in our phone, looking for licenses will
not get you very far. You have to look at the software itself.

Most of the apps that my script removes [1] are non-free. Still, in order to
have a working device, some non-free apps and other modifications to the
Android user land are required.

The sources for the Linux kernel are also incomplete [2] in possible violation
of its GPLv2 license. This is one of the things that prevents us to build
better and newer versions of Android for the Fairphone ourselves.

Kind Regards,
Torsten

[1] https://github.com/grote/fairphone-barebone/blob/master/freephone.sh
[2] http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2636257
Tobias Platen
2014-08-01 13:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Torsten Grote
Post by Carsten Agger
Which apps are under a proprietary license? The "About" section
in the settings doesn't list any proprietary licenses at all.
Only "Open source" licenses, mainly Apache and GPL.
Proprietary software usually does not require a license to be
shipped with it to end-users and only sometimes you have an EULA.
When looking for proprietary software in our phone, looking for
licenses will not get you very far. You have to look at the
software itself.
Most of the apps that my script removes [1] are non-free. Still, in
order to have a working device, some non-free apps and other
modifications to the Android user land are required.
The sources for the Linux kernel are also incomplete [2] in
possible violation of its GPLv2 license. This is one of the things
that prevents us to build better and newer versions of Android for
the Fairphone ourselves.
Kind Regards, Torsten
[1]
https://github.com/grote/fairphone-barebone/blob/master/freephone.sh
[2] http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2636257
Post by Torsten Grote
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The fairphone launcher seems to be free software[1], but all third
party programms are be nonfree, as long the corresponding source code
is not released. I did not try to build those programs from source.

[1] https://github.com/Kwamecorp/Fairphone
Carsten Agger
2014-08-02 06:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Thanks to Tobias and Torsten for clarifying.


I just went to write this on their forum:

"

I'm a free software activist and just received my second batch Fairphone.

Basically, I believe the "fair" solution as regards to software is that
we should always have the right to run, study, modify and redistribute
any software we use - which is rather a prerequisite for "owning" it, so
having 100% free software is very much in the Fairphone's spirit.

At first I thought this was already the case, as the legal information
in "About this phone" only includes "Open Source Licenses".

However, the phone seems to include proprietary firmware (maybe
inevitable at this point) and some of the apps seem not to be free
software. How do I find out exactly which apps are covered by the "open
source licenses" and which are not? I'd like to delete all the latter
and only keep the former. And then I very much hope that future versions
of the Fairphone will build on 100% free software. The "End-User License
for Fairphone OS"
(https://fairphone.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201359553) is not just
not free or "Open Source", it's actually quite unacceptable for anyone
with an interest in free software.

The best case scenario would be that each app is open source, its source
code is easily available, there is no proprietary firmware because all
hardware has open specifcations, and the EULA on the URL above should
state that you, the user, is always allowed to use, study, change and
redistribute the software as you want.

This should be the out-of-the-box experience of an actually "Fair"
device. If people want to install proprietary packages as e.g. the
Google apps on top of this, they'll of course be free to do so.

And in order not to sound too negative, I'll add that the Fairphone is a
step forward compared to other Android devices. It comes rooted, and
you're not required to have a Google account to use it. That's really
worth a lot! As I want the project to succeed, I'd also like it to give
complete software freedom out of the box, as that's actually the only
fair way to deal in software. Fairphone should not settle for anything less.

"
https://forum.fairphone.com/t/which-out-of-the-box-apps-are-free-software/175

In the EULA mentioned above, they write several times that the
restrictions on what you can do with the software are "not interesting"
for most users.

This indicates to me that the main problem here is the usual, that of
education. They don't seem to understand the issue at all, especially
not why freedom is important. Maybe they belong to the "Ubuntu
generation", who've been presented and in some cases grown up with some
really slick and well-working free software packages and thus come to an
admiration of all things "open source" - but because the slick software
didn't come with an explanation of the principles behind free software,
they see no problem in accepting even slicker proprietary software. Like
some "smart" Open Source developers insisting on only using non-copyleft
licenses. (Hmmm, the last remarks are also about another frustration
I'm having, currently: The thing that giving people free software is
useful if you also don't get them to grasp why it's important that it's
free. Adoption without education is useless, it would seem, and that's
frustrating, in part because adoption is so much easier to achieve).
Post by Torsten Grote
Post by Torsten Grote
Post by Carsten Agger
Which apps are under a proprietary license? The "About" section
in the settings doesn't list any proprietary licenses at all.
Only "Open source" licenses, mainly Apache and GPL.
Proprietary software usually does not require a license to be
shipped with it to end-users and only sometimes you have an EULA.
When looking for proprietary software in our phone, looking for
licenses will not get you very far. You have to look at the
software itself.
Most of the apps that my script removes [1] are non-free. Still, in
order to have a working device, some non-free apps and other
modifications to the Android user land are required.
The sources for the Linux kernel are also incomplete [2] in
possible violation of its GPLv2 license. This is one of the things
that prevents us to build better and newer versions of Android for
the Fairphone ourselves.
Kind Regards, Torsten
[1]
https://github.com/grote/fairphone-barebone/blob/master/freephone.sh
[2] http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2636257
Post by Torsten Grote
_______________________________________________ Discussion mailing
list Discussion at fsfeurope.org
https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
The fairphone launcher seems to be free software[1], but all third
party programms are be nonfree, as long the corresponding source code
is not released. I did not try to build those programs from source.
[1] https://github.com/Kwamecorp/Fairphone
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Mats Sjöberg
2014-08-02 08:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carsten Agger
Thanks to Tobias and Torsten for clarifying.
Hello Carsten, Tobias and Torsten, and thanks for this discussion! I was
also under the impression the Fairphone was a lot better on the FLOSS
front than what it appears...
Post by Carsten Agger
I'm a free software activist and just received my second batch Fairphone.
Basically, I believe the "fair" solution as regards to software is that
we should always have the right to run, study, modify and redistribute
any software we use - which is rather a prerequisite for "owning" it, so
having 100% free software is very much in the Fairphone's spirit.
...
I wrote a short reply to keep the topic active in the Fairphone forum.
Maybe if we all chime in we can get their attention :-)

Best regards,
Mats
--
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OpenPGP key: 8A9F94D8, http://sjoberg.fi/publickey.asc
Email encryption guide: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/
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Carsten Agger
2014-08-04 11:31:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mats Sjöberg
Hello Carsten, Tobias and Torsten, and thanks for this discussion! I was
also under the impression the Fairphone was a lot better on the FLOSS
front than what it appears...
Post by Carsten Agger
I'm a free software activist and just received my second batch Fairphone.
Basically, I believe the "fair" solution as regards to software is that
we should always have the right to run, study, modify and redistribute
any software we use - which is rather a prerequisite for "owning" it, so
having 100% free software is very much in the Fairphone's spirit.
...
I wrote a short reply to keep the topic active in the Fairphone forum.
Maybe if we all chime in we can get their attention :-)
Hi Mats

Thanks for the support!

Just to follow up: A member of the Faiprhone community with some
interest in free software wrote a quite considerate response, in which
he basically explained that the Fairphone is a small project and right
now has more focus on mineral sourcing and working conditions and
transparency of processes etc. than on software freedom, but want to be
free software-friendly in the long run.

The same community member then started a thread to list non-free
software + suggestions of alternatives, so we can at least be informed
and use a free alternative where possible:

https://forum.fairphone.com/t/a-collection-of-non-free-as-in-freedom-software-preinstalled-on-the-fairphone-and-possible-alternatives/


This is a step in the right direction, and I still feel better about the
Fairphone than about the many standard Android systems where you can't
uninstall Google Apps. Since they apparently do want to support free
software in the long run, I think the project with its focus on
transparence and ethical sourcing is a very good match for the free
software community. Only we need to keep reminding them that free
software should be a priority. :-)
--
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