Any suggestion as to how or if to proceed?

[Andres]

Dear All,
I am new to the mailing list, I have cut out contact details but it involves libraries in the UK.
Let me know if not appropiate.

**********

Dear Andr?s

?

Thanks for this.? Basic set up in our libraries is as follows - both staff and public networks are supported by SERCO. They provide:

?

?????????hardware and network support

?????????infrastructure support for e-mail (Exchange/Outlook)

?????????maintenance for the PCs - fix or replace malfunctioning devices.

?????????support for the VOIP phone network used by Libraries

?????????some support for printers on the public and staff networks

?

The fundamental software setup is based on the same architecture as the council as a whole - PCs currently run Windows XP and Office 2003. The Library management system is provided by Civica.? Beyond the basic Microsoft setup we use software from a variety of sources, and have looked at a whole range of software from the proprietary (e.g. Photoshop Elements) to open source (e.g. The Gimp).

?

The reality is that the ICT resources in libraries and in the Council generally are at full stretch delivering a significant amount of change.? Regrettably therefore I don?t think there is any appetite or capacity to engage at this time in any further consideration of open source software.

?

Thanks for your interest on this though ? I hope you enjoyed the opening event as much as I did and that you and others in the community enjoy the fantastic new facilities now that they are properly open.

?

Regards,

?<snip>

?

From:?Andr?s Mu?iz Piniella

?

Dear *****,It was nice meeting you at the ***** event.Could you find out what the name of the company that will service the user side of the IT of *******((Public Libraries?From my conversation with Peter Bazalgette there is an 'Envisioning?' report that says open source in council libraries is the way to go but that it was up to Coucils. There is a general goverment push towards this as well, as you commented when we met.I then spoke to some of the techies in IT support for public service and they say they would love to support free (as in freedom not free beer) software on the public facing side, since background servers are already using free-libre open source software (FLOSS) tools. But they are stuck in the status quo. A particular techie said that talking to council to change was a waste of time, that I should talk directly to the support company. I do not think this is true, since the council is the client and the client is always right (if given a choice).Of course,
general public is not going to request a shift from a particular american closed source company to one of the british FLOSS companies because they do not know there are options, consecuences of being in a sponsored monopoly for so long!?That is why I hold workshops where I help neighbours using only FLOSS tech.Let me know if I am taking the wrong approach. And if you can help me contact your support companies.Regards,Andr?s
<snip>

[Daniel Pocock]

Hi Andres,

There is a simple strategy that all sales people learn: find the
decision maker.

From your email, I can see that some people are sympathetic to this

objective but they are either not able to make the final decision or
whatever. So from what I can see, you are still in the early phase of
this project, trying to identify the real decision maker.

What these other people can do, however, is to help you identify the
right person to speak to and maybe even help you get an appointment.
Documents concerning the Serco tender may reveal how that decision was
made and who made the decision.

In democratic organisations (e.g. councils) the decision maker may be a
group (e.g. the elected council). That can be more complicated.

In parallel with trying to find that person or group responsible for the
decision, you also need to ask yourself: why will they care? If it is
some manager or CEO, they will care about meeting their performance
objectives to get their bonus. The performance objectives for a senior
official may be in the public reports. If it is an elected council,
they probably care about one thing above everything else: getting
themselves re-elected, which usually means getting positive attention
from the public. In any case, if you can identify the ultimate decision
maker and the way to motivate them, you can close the deal.

Regards,

Daniel

Dear All,
I am new to the mailing list, I have cut out contact details but it involves libraries in the UK.
Let me know if not appropiate.
**********
Dear Andr?s
? hardware and network support
? infrastructure support for e-mail (Exchange/Outlook)
? maintenance for the PCs - fix or replace malfunctioning devices.
? support for the VOIP phone network used by Libraries
? some support for printers on the public and staff networks
The fundamental software setup is based on the same architecture as the council as a whole - PCs currently run Windows XP and Office 2003. The Library management system is provided by Civica. Beyond the basic Microsoft setup we use software from a variety of sources, and have looked at a whole range of software from the proprietary (e.g. Photoshop Elements) to open source (e.g. The Gimp).
The reality is that the ICT resources in libraries and in the Council generally are at full stretch delivering a significant amount of change. Regrettably therefore I don?t think there is any appetite or capacity to engage at this time in any further consideration of open source software.
Thanks for your interest on this though ? I hope you enjoyed the opening event as much as I did and that you and others in the community enjoy the fantastic new facilities now that they are properly open.
Regards,
<snip>
From: Andr?s Mu?iz Piniella
Dear *****,It was nice meeting you at the ***** event.Could you find out what the name of the company that will service the user side of the IT of *******((Public Libraries?From my conversation with Peter Bazalgette there is an 'Envisioning?' report that says open source in council libraries is the way to go but that it was up to Coucils. There is a general goverment push towards this as well, as you commented when we met.I then spoke to some of the techies in IT support for public service and they say they would love to support free (as in freedom not free beer) software on the public facing side, since background servers are already using free-libre open source software (FLOSS) tools. But they are stuck in the status quo. A particular techie said that talking to council to change was a waste of time, that I should talk directly to the support company. I do not think this is true, since the council is the client and the client is always right (if given a choice).Of course,
general public is not going to request a shift from a particular american closed source company to one of the british FLOSS companies because they do not know there are options, consecuences of being in a sponsored monopoly for so long! That is why I hold workshops where I help neighbours using only FLOSS tech.Let me know if I am taking the wrong approach. And if you can help me contact your support companies.Regards,Andr?s
<snip>
_______________________________________________
Discussion mailing list
Discussion at fsfeurope.org
https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion

[Andres]

Post by Daniel Pocock
Hi Andres,
There is a simple strategy that all sales people learn: find the
decision maker.

Agreed! But it seems nobody wants to make the decision. Maybe someone form Richmond Upon Thames Council (UK) is around this mailing list?

Post by Daniel Pocock
From your email, I can see that some people are sympathetic to this
objective but they are either not able to make the final decision or
whatever. So from what I can see, you are still in the early phase of
this project, trying to identify the real decision maker.

I guess, I thought I had identified it a couple of times, went from chief of culture to library manager, contract holding civil servant and library representative in the council. Frankly it is really interesting.

Post by Daniel Pocock
What these other people can do, however, is to help you identify the
right person to speak to and maybe even help you get an appointment.
Documents concerning the Serco tender may reveal how that decision was
made and who made the decision.

Ok, I'll ask for that, maybe a freedom of information act? What about contacting the person with serco that manages the contract? Knowing serco they subcontract someone like civico.

Post by Daniel Pocock
In democratic organisations (e.g. councils) the decision maker may be a
group (e.g. the elected council). That can be more complicated.

This is problably the case,

Post by Daniel Pocock
In parallel with trying to find that person or group responsible for the
decision, you also need to ask yourself: why will they care? If it is
some manager or CEO, they will care about meeting their performance
objectives to get their bonus. The performance objectives for a senior
official may be in the public reports. If it is an elected council,
they probably care about one thing above everything else: getting
themselves re-elected, which usually means getting positive attention
from the public. In any case, if you can identify the ultimate
decision
maker and the way to motivate them, you can close the deal.

Thanks! For the tip, I will try to play this, elections are coming next year.

Post by Daniel Pocock
Regards,
Daniel

Post by Andres
Dear All,
I am new to the mailing list, I have cut out contact details but it

involves libraries in the UK.

Post by Andres
Let me know if not appropiate.
**********
Dear Andr?s
Thanks for this. Basic set up in our libraries is as follows - both
? hardware and network support
? infrastructure support for e-mail (Exchange/Outlook)
? maintenance for the PCs - fix or replace malfunctioning

devices.

Post by Andres
? support for the VOIP phone network used by Libraries
? some support for printers on the public and staff networks
The fundamental software setup is based on the same architecture as

the council as a whole - PCs currently run Windows XP and Office 2003.
The Library management system is provided by Civica. Beyond the basic
Microsoft setup we use software from a variety of sources, and have
looked at a whole range of software from the proprietary (e.g.
Photoshop Elements) to open source (e.g. The Gimp).

Post by Andres
The reality is that the ICT resources in libraries and in the Council

generally are at full stretch delivering a significant amount of
change. Regrettably therefore I don?t think there is any appetite or
capacity to engage at this time in any further consideration of open
source software.

Post by Andres
Thanks for your interest on this though ? I hope you enjoyed the

opening event as much as I did and that you and others in the community
enjoy the fantastic new facilities now that they are properly open.

Post by Andres
Regards,
<snip>
From: Andr?s Mu?iz Piniella
Dear *****,It was nice meeting you at the ***** event.Could you find

out what the name of the company that will service the user side of the
IT of *******((Public Libraries?From my conversation with Peter
Bazalgette there is an 'Envisioning?' report that says open source in
council libraries is the way to go but that it was up to Coucils. There
is a general goverment push towards this as well, as you commented when
we met.I then spoke to some of the techies in IT support for public
service and they say they would love to support free (as in freedom not
free beer) software on the public facing side, since background servers
are already using free-libre open source software (FLOSS) tools. But
they are stuck in the status quo. A particular techie said that talking
to council to change was a waste of time, that I should talk directly
to the support company. I do not think this is true, since the council
is the client and the client is always right (if given a choice).Of
course,

Post by Andres
general public is not going to request a shift from a particular

american closed source company to one of the british FLOSS companies
because they do not know there are options, consecuences of being in a
sponsored monopoly for so long! That is why I hold workshops where I
help neighbours using only FLOSS tech.Let me know if I am taking the
wrong approach. And if you can help me contact your support
companies.Regards,Andr?s

Post by Andres
<snip>
_______________________________________________
Discussion mailing list
Discussion at fsfeurope.org
https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion

[Heiki &quot;Repentinus&quot; Ojasild]

Dear Andr?s,

Post by Andres
I am new to the mailing list, I have cut out contact details but it
involves libraries in the UK.

Welcome!

The venue is appropriate, but when forwarding a long e-mail exchange to
a list, it would be rather decent to briefly summarise it.

In regard to the substance, am I correct that your e-mail exchange does
not deal with the general situation in the UK, but with the local
situation in a particular municipality?

If that is the case, I would pick a few technically minded council
members and attempt to set up a meeting with them to explain the
problem. If you can get them to bring up the issue at a council meeting,
it will, at minimum, raise awareness of the problem, which might be
enough to get the council move its libraries towards Free Software.

You also mention British FS companies in your original e-mail. Are there
any who would benefit if the council moved to FS? Maybe you could
contact one of those and ask them for help with lobbying?

On a more general note, do you know how common the problem is in
general? Are there any municipalities making use of Free Software,
especially on their public computers?


Cheers,
--
Heiki "Repentinus" Ojasild
FSFE Fellowship Representative
mailto:repentinus at fsfe.org
xmpp:repentinus at jabber.fsfe.org
http://blogs.fsfe.org/repentinus/

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[Andres]

Post by Heiki &quot;Repentinus&quot; Ojasild
Dear Andr?s,

Post by Andres
I am new to the mailing list, I have cut out contact details but it
involves libraries in the UK.

Welcome!
The venue is appropriate, but when forwarding a long e-mail exchange to
a list, it would be rather decent to briefly summarise it.

Note taken, sorry, it does make sense.

Post by Heiki &quot;Repentinus&quot; Ojasild
In regard to the substance, am I correct that your e-mail exchange does
not deal with the general situation in the UK, but with the local
situation in a particular municipality?

Yes.

Post by Heiki &quot;Repentinus&quot; Ojasild
If that is the case, I would pick a few technically minded council
members and attempt to set up a meeting with them to explain the
problem. If you can get them to bring up the issue at a council
meeting,
it will, at minimum, raise awareness of the problem, which might be
enough to get the council move its libraries towards Free Software.

OK, I will start finding out who is who.

Post by Heiki &quot;Repentinus&quot; Ojasild
You also mention British FS companies in your original e-mail. Are there
any who would benefit if the council moved to FS? Maybe you could
contact one of those and ask them for help with lobbying?

I can think of canonical and foss box, the latter might be easier.

Post by Heiki &quot;Repentinus&quot; Ojasild
On a more general note, do you know how common the problem is in
general? Are there any municipalities making use of Free Software,
especially on their public computers?

Not that I know of, I did mention munich and the french police incthe face to face canversation.
Thank you!