A lightweight laptop with SSD and good GNU/linx support?

[Hugo Roy]

Hello,

You know how hard it is to find a good laptop. You know how harder it
can be to find one without windows, or better, with some flavour of
GNU/Linux preinstalled.

I'm looking for a new laptop. Do you have suggestions matching:

* Good support with Debian Testing
* No more than 13 inches
* Good Battery life. At least 5 hours
* around 1 kilo / 2.4 pounds
* No more than 500 EUR
* SSD
http://blogs.fsfe.org/hugo/2013/01/im-looking-for-a-new-laptop-suggestions/

Thanks!!
Hugo

[Daniel Pocock]

Post by Hugo Roy
Hello,
You know how hard it is to find a good laptop. You know how harder it
can be to find one without windows, or better, with some flavour of
GNU/Linux preinstalled.

Secondhand Thinkpad X series (e.g. from eBay in the US)

We have two X220 Thinkpads, both with touchscreen. It is worth paying
more to get the Ultimate N wifi card, one of ours has the regular
Thinkpad wifi and we have often noticed differences in performance when
using them in the same location

All hardware, including touchscreen, webcam, wifi seem to work with
Debian 6 and 7 and I've used it for the full advertised 6 hours when
flying long distances.

Post by Hugo Roy
* Good support with Debian Testing
* No more than 13 inches
* Good Battery life. At least 5 hours
* around 1 kilo / 2.4 pounds
* No more than 500 EUR
* SSD
http://blogs.fsfe.org/hugo/2013/01/im-looking-for-a-new-laptop-suggestions/
Thanks!!
Hugo

[Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross]

Wait for Rhombus-tech.net laptop.

[vedran alajbegovic]

if you are looking forward to buy Thinkpad, try to find somebody to bring
it to you from USA.

In USA you can get for 1200$ MUCH better configuration than in EU for 1800
euro

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross <

Post by Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross
Wait for Rhombus-tech.net laptop.
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[Andreas Tolf Tolfsen]

Post by Daniel Pocock

Post by Hugo Roy
Hello,
You know how hard it is to find a good laptop. You know how harder it
can be to find one without windows, or better, with some flavour of
GNU/Linux preinstalled.

Secondhand Thinkpad X series (e.g. from eBay in the US)
We have two X220 Thinkpads, both with touchscreen.

I can second the Thinkpad X220, it's one of the best machines I've used
in a long time. I hear the lighter and more slick X1 Carbon should also
be good, especially because it has a better and brighter screen.

[Guido Arnold]

Hello Hugo,

Post by Hugo Roy
You know how hard it is to find a good laptop. You know how harder it
can be to find one without windows, or better, with some flavour of
GNU/Linux preinstalled.
* Good support with Debian Testing
* No more than 13 inches
* Good Battery life. At least 5 hours
* around 1 kilo / 2.4 pounds
* No more than 500 EUR
* SSD
http://blogs.fsfe.org/hugo/2013/01/im-looking-for-a-new-laptop-suggestions/

Have you already had a look at
https://www.wiki.fsfe.org/Hardware%20Vendors
?

Greetings,

Guido
--
Guido Arnold Free Software Foundation Europe
http://blogs.fsfe.org/guido [] Edu team & German team
OpenPGP Key-ID: 0x51628D75 [][][] Get active!
XMPP: guido at jabber.fsfe.org || http://fsfe.org/support/?guido

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[Tanguy Ortolo]

Salut Hugo.

Although it does not really match your specifications, you may be
interested by my last laptop purchase experience. I was looking for a
lightweight laptop, 10 inches, without paying for a Windows license I
would not use, and with good Debian testing support too.

There was not much choice here: the only netbook manufacturer to offer a
rather easy Windows tax refund is Asus. The graphic chipset embedded in
the current Intel Atom processors require a lame proprietary driver and
suck with free drivers. Asus and Acer, the last netbook manufacturers,
are going to eventually abandon that market.

With all that context, there was almost only one model left: Asus Eee PC
1015BX. Cheap, using perfectly supported AMD graphic chipset and
wifi card, without requiring any proprietary firmware. Asus has agreed
to refund me the Windows tax, I am now waiting for their transfer.

That laptop is not perfect though, and I have discovered three
significant problems with it:
* it has an EFI firmware, which is fine for configuring the motherboard,
but almost unusable to boot because it implements an old version of
the UEFI specification (so I am booting that laptop in BIOS mode,
which works fine);
* they only put a single loudspeaker, the right one I think, so the left
channel produces no sound;
* they only put a single hybrid microphone/headset jack, which may or
may not work with telephone-type four-rings jacks for mic/headset
combos, but I have not tested that yet.

Hope it helps. If you decide to buy a netbook, hurry up, because the
last ones are currently being sold in discount, and there will probably
be not new ones after that.

Librement,

[Hugo Roy]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I'll have a look. Meanwhile, I just
noticed there's a new Chromebook
http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/education/devices/lenovo-x131e-chromebook.html#gallery

Apart from the weight, it is perfect. I hope they will sell them in
Europe...

Best,
HUgo

[Robert Kehl]

Post by Hugo Roy
Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I'll have a look. Meanwhile, I just
noticed there's a new Chromebook
Apart from the weight, it is perfect. I hope they will sell them in
Europe...

Yea, you're right, absolutely. It's awesome! Need it. Want it. OMG!
OMGOMG XOXOXO!

Supporting Google is what free software is all about - just think of
Google search - it is free! Google News - free! Google Docs - no need
for Microsoft anymore! Google is freedom. I am so happy.

But, wait - what if Coca-Cola, Nestl? or UniLever put out a similar
laptop? Or the new Facebook laptop comes out two weeks after you buy?
Isn't that worth waiting a little bit? Just think of the incredible
McDonalds laptop - it even will bear Ketchup on the keyboard, which in
turn you would not need because it will have a multitouchpadscreen being
as good as never before. Ever. Well, it can be topped by the MonSanto
Tablet, which will definitely be worth to look upon.

For sure you will not be supporting the companies - no, numbers do not
count, even if it were sales counts. Stay safe.

Sigh... I'm exhausted - guess I need some googling to power up my
batteries. :-)

Thanks for staying up so late, ;-)

Rob

[Hugo Roy]

Post by Robert Kehl
Thanks for staying up so late, ;-)

I'm not sure you understand that I will install debian on this...

When I said that it was exactly what I was looking for, I was only
referring to the hardware obviously.

Unfortunately, none of the laptops sold without any os match my
criteria. My laptop is my everyday working tool, the hardware is
important too?

That is the sad state of getting free software on hardware. I'm not
happy about this, but please keep your improper sarcasm for yourself,
you're more making a fool of yourself than anything else.

[Robert Kehl]

Post by Hugo Roy

Post by Robert Kehl
Thanks for staying up so late, ;-)

I'm not sure you understand that I will install debian on this...

For sure I did.

Post by Hugo Roy
That is the sad state of getting free software on hardware. I'm not
happy about this, but please keep your improper sarcasm for yourself,
you're more making a fool of yourself than anything else.

You did see the smileys? Calm down, Hugo, no need to get angry.
Supporting Google is nothing we should do, and numbers count, even if
you do not use Googles software. So, one should not buy Googles products
if possible.

That's just my 0.02, no sarcasm implied :-) <---

With kind regards,

Robert Kehl

[Michael G]

(...) and numbers count (..)

Exactly. And this is why he should buy it. Given the choice between

a) an expensive laptop with "Microsoft tax" or
b) a comparable, less expensive laptop from a company that might be
evil but still opensources a lot of SW

a) is the preferrable option.
Better still would be c) good, affordable laptop without UEFI and no
SW at all (I don't like preinstalled software, because I think it is
all about freedom and I don't want any specific distro brutally
"suggested" to me)

But if c) is not available, b) is still better than a) (kind of lika a
"least worst" decision)

Have a nice day (and weekend :-))

Michael

[Michael G]

Post by Michael G
a) is the preferrable option.

darn, I ment b), of course.

M.

[simo]

Post by Michael G
Better still would be c) good, affordable laptop without UEFI and no

What's wrong with UEFI ?

Simo.

[Hugo Roy]

Post by simo

Post by Michael G
Better still would be c) good, affordable laptop without UEFI and no

What's wrong with UEFI ?

Thank you Simo for pointing it out. What's usually wrong with UEFI (the
replacement for BIOS) is the "Secure Boot" feature. Matthias published
an analysis on fsfe.org:
http://fsfe.org/campaigns/generalpurposecomputing/secure-boot-analysis.en.html

Best,

[Tanguy Ortolo]

Post by Hugo Roy

Post by simo
What's wrong with UEFI ?

Thank you Simo for pointing it out. What's usually wrong with UEFI (the
replacement for BIOS) is the "Secure Boot" feature. Matthias published
http://fsfe.org/campaigns/generalpurposecomputing/secure-boot-analysis.en.html

But note that there are computers with an UEFI and no Secure Boot.

[Sam Liddicott]

Without intended to promote dissent, I like UEFI with secure boot when I
can upload the signing keys and there is a physical switch on such key
storage. That way I can secure my own machine and retain my own freedom.

I acknowledge that UEFI + secure boot generally refers to something more
restrictive

Post by Hugo Roy

Post by Hugo Roy

Post by simo
What's wrong with UEFI ?

Thank you Simo for pointing it out. What's usually wrong with UEFI (the
replacement for BIOS) is the "Secure Boot" feature. Matthias published

http://fsfe.org/campaigns/generalpurposecomputing/secure-boot-analysis.en.html
But note that there are computers with an UEFI and no Secure Boot.
--
Tanguy
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[Hugo Roy]

Post by Sam Liddicott
Without intended to promote dissent, I like UEFI with secure boot when
I can upload the signing keys and there is a physical switch on such
key storage. That way I can secure my own machine and retain my own
freedom.

I think that's exactly our position too. Matthias can tell you more
about that ;)

[Matthias Kirschner]

Post by Hugo Roy

Post by Sam Liddicott
Without intended to promote dissent, I like UEFI with secure boot when
I can upload the signing keys and there is a physical switch on such
key storage. That way I can secure my own machine and retain my own
freedom.

I think that's exactly our position too. Matthias can tell you more
about that ;)

Yes, the above would be good. But that is not how UEFI works at the
moment. See
http://fsfe.org/campaigns/generalpurposecomputing/secure-boot-analysis.en.html.

Regards,
Matthias

[Hugo Roy]

Post by Tanguy Ortolo
But note that there are computers with an UEFI and no Secure Boot.

Yes. But there are also computers where Secure Boot is required by
certain software editors (e.g. Microsoft Windows on ARM devices) and I
suspect we are going to see more of these in the future.

[simo]

Post by Hugo Roy

Post by simo

Post by Michael G
Better still would be c) good, affordable laptop without UEFI and no

What's wrong with UEFI ?

Thank you Simo for pointing it out. What's usually wrong with UEFI (the
replacement for BIOS) is the "Secure Boot" feature. Matthias published
http://fsfe.org/campaigns/generalpurposecomputing/secure-boot-analysis.en.html

SecureBoot can be disabled in most UEFI systems, it would have been
better to explictly say no 'Secure Boot', UEFI is much, much more than
just Secure Boot.

(and someone may complain about proprietary binary drivers in UEFI, but
then the BIOS is usually proprietary too, so I see no difference there.)

Simo.

[Matthias Kirschner]

Post by simo

Post by Hugo Roy

Post by simo

Post by Michael G
Better still would be c) good, affordable laptop without UEFI and no

What's wrong with UEFI ?

Thank you Simo for pointing it out. What's usually wrong with UEFI (the
replacement for BIOS) is the "Secure Boot" feature. Matthias published
http://fsfe.org/campaigns/generalpurposecomputing/secure-boot-analysis.en.html

SecureBoot can be disabled in most UEFI systems, it would have been
better to explictly say no 'Secure Boot', UEFI is much, much more than
just Secure Boot.

Yes, "Secure Boot" is just a part, as written in the article above:

In 2012 the industry-wide transition of PCs, notebooks, servers, and
other computers' firmware from conventional BIOS to UEFI will be
mostly complete. Compared to conventional BIOS, UEFI has several
advantages, such as faster boot time, operating system independent
drivers, and the promise of extended security.

The security aspect is handled by a function called "Secure Boot".
[...]

Do you have any statistics that it can be disables in most UEFI systems?
I have not seen any numbers yet. And what did you have to do, to disable
it?

Beside, we would like to have Secure Boot in a way, that it can also be
used with Free Software operating systems.

Regards,
Matthias

[Heiki &quot;Repentinus&quot; Ojasild]

Hello,

Post by Robert Kehl

Post by Hugo Roy
I'm not sure you understand that I will install debian on this...

For sure I did.

I thought you might have been ignorant, but now I have to agree with
Hugo. Your tirade was counterproductive and useless.

Post by Robert Kehl
You did see the smileys? Calm down, Hugo, no need to get angry. Supporting
Google is nothing we should do, and numbers count, even if you do not use
Googles software. So, one should not buy Googles products if possible.

That attitude is, of course, also counterproductive. One shoult not
support Google's products that are non-free or market leaders.
However, getting subsidised hardware and then not using Google's OS on
it is actually harmful to Google's attempts to produce half-free
software compilations branded as OSes.

Furthermore, I would like to point out that Google supports several
Free Software organisations (including FSFE), a lot of FS development
by providing Google Code infrastructure and offers quite a few FS
packages; thus, Google is not by far the worst option.

Also on the pro side, one can be pretty sure that GNU/Linux has the
hardware support necessary to keep the Chromebook nicely running. Not
many systems guarantee that. Personally I am using a 15.4" Asus laptop
that is going to turn 4 soon and that laptop has better wireless
support on Windows (not that I have it installed) than GNU/Linux.


Cheers,

[Sam Liddicott]

Don't worry Hugo;

however zealous one might be for freedom, there is always someone else who
will still see one as a yellow running dog shill

The answer (which you understand) is to seek freedom rather than approval

Sam

Post by Hugo Roy

Post by Robert Kehl
Thanks for staying up so late, ;-)

I'm not sure you understand that I will install debian on this...
When I said that it was exactly what I was looking for, I was only
referring to the hardware obviously.
Unfortunately, none of the laptops sold without any os match my
criteria. My laptop is my everyday working tool, the hardware is
important too?
That is the sad state of getting free software on hardware. I'm not
happy about this, but please keep your improper sarcasm for yourself,
you're more making a fool of yourself than anything else.
--
Hugo Roy
FSFE Legal Team Deputy Coordinator
FSFE French Team Coordinator
Support Free Software, sign up! https://fsfe.org/support
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