English version of the tool leaflet to comment on

[Lucile Falgueyrac]

Hi everyone,

The new English version of the tool leaflet is almost done. It is quite
different from the original German one.

--> the language needs to be proofread
--> the text (actual content) needs to be checked

Ideas / critics / remarks welcome!
Since I sent the source file to designers@, I'm just attaching the pdf
here to have less conflicts. Just tell me if you need them.

I sent the following points to designers@, but your are also welcome to
comment on it:

--> colours are slightly different
--> I couldn't arrange the text nicely -> word breaks are very bad and
non consistent, as is justification. The little boxes look terrible if
justified, the big texts look messy if not justified
--> the third box of the third inside panel is special, if know how to
make it look better please tell me

Any other advice? Feedback?


Thanks!

Best,
Lucile
--
Lucile Falgueyrac - Free Software Foundation Europe
FSFE, Sch?nhauser Allee 6/7, 10119 Berlin
XMPP : lucile.falg at jabber.fsfe.org

Support FSFE! https://fsfe.org/
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[Jann Eike Kruse]

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
Hi everyone,
The new English version of the tool leaflet is almost done. It is quite
different from the original German one.
--> the language needs to be proofread
--> the text (actual content) needs to be checked
Ideas / critics / remarks welcome!
here to have less conflicts. Just tell me if you need them.
--> colours are slightly different
--> I couldn't arrange the text nicely -> word breaks are very bad and
non consistent, as is justification. The little boxes look terrible if
justified, the big texts look messy if not justified
--> the third box of the third inside panel is special, if know how to
make it look better please tell me
Any other advice? Feedback?
Thanks!
Best,
Lucile

Nice work!

I fully agree with the message of the leaflet.

Well, I already know what is really behind the points 1 to 8. But I
suggest to ask also for feedback from people (friends/family) who know
very little about Software Freedom and especially from people who use
and like fancy proprietary software. Since those people are the target
group of this leaflet, it is important that they (at least some of them)
get the message and not find it totally silly or irrelevant or
far-fetched or whatever... I hope they don't.

Some small suggestions within the text:

"[...] Free Software is not about price, but liberty."
I suggest:
"[...] Free Software is not about price, it's about liberty."
"[...] Free Software is not about cost, it's about your freedom."

"Whoever controls the software therefore controls you."
I suggest:
"So whoever controls the software also controls you."

"Sometimes it 'only' does not do exactly what you expected,
but there are also programs and apps that contain malicious
'features' like leaking your data without your knowledge."
I suggest:
"Some programs and apps might not do exactly what you expect.
Others may contain malicious 'features' and abuse your
data or your device for their own purpose behind your back."
Maybe use italics instead of '....' quotes?

"you will benefit from the knowledge and expertise of
vibrant communities ." <- There's an extra space before the dot.


Keep it up!

Cheers,
Jann

[Heiki &quot;Repentinus&quot; Ojasild]

Post by Jann Eike Kruse
"[...] Free Software is not about price, but liberty."
"[...] Free Software is not about price, it's about liberty."
"[...] Free Software is not about cost, it's about your freedom."

The original sentence is perfectly fine. Furthermore, comma splices are
ungrammatical in English.

Post by Jann Eike Kruse
"Whoever controls the software therefore controls you."
"So whoever controls the software also controls you."

No preference here.

Post by Jann Eike Kruse
"Sometimes it 'only' does not do exactly what you expected,
but there are also programs and apps that contain malicious
'features' like leaking your data without your knowledge."
"Some programs and apps might not do exactly what you expect.
Others may contain malicious 'features' and abuse your
data or your device for their own purpose behind your back."

I am not sure that the proposed replacement is good enough; however,
neither is the original. My proposal:

"The shortcomings of non-free software are sometimes limited to failing
to meet your expectations; however, more often than not non-free
software also leaks your data or hides other malicious 'features'."

Post by Jann Eike Kruse
Maybe use italics instead of '....' quotes?

+1
--
Heiki "Repentinus" Ojasild
FSFE Fellowship Representative
mailto:repentinus at fsfe.org
xmpp:repentinus at jabber.fsfe.org
http://blogs.fsfe.org/repentinus/

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[Fernando Reis]

Hi,

I recently joined the fellowship and have not contributed before to the work of the Foundation.
I would like to thank you and show my appreciation for your work.

I suppose comments are welcome from everyone, therefore please find my small contribution below.
I split the comments in the the 6 pages of the flyer after folded.

1st page (front cover):
- I think that "tools" is a term too generic in English to be used with the purpose intended here. Why not use simply "screwdriver"? I think it would make the title more catchy, "What do Free Software and a screwdriver have in common?" I think that would really make people want to open the flyer and read it.

2nd and 3rd page (the comparison):
- "? to such serious digital restrictions, which is why ?" -> "?to serious digital restrictions. That's why?" (You use "such" if the restrictions have been enumerated before or if you're making a comparison, which is neither case here. I think that breaking it in two sentences makes it easier to read.
- "? absurd consequences it would have if for example screwdrivers ?" -> "? absurd consequences if for example screwdrivers ?" ("it would have" is not needed.)
- "? to external unknown persons ?" -> "? to unknown persons" (it is as bad when it is sent to internal unknown persons :)
- "? whitout our knowledge." -> "? without our knowledge" (screw number 8)
- "? software patent?" -> "? software patents?"

4th page:
- "Where can Free Software be used?" -> "Where is Free Software used?" (I think that "can" leaves the feeling that we have the dream that free software one day will be used in those specific areas, when it is in fact a reality.)
- "? often badly restricted." -> "? often strongly restricted." (Badly restricted would mean wrongly done.)
- "data bases" -> "databases"
- "? has almost no end. Free Software accounts?" -> "? has almost no end. Non-free proprietary software is still used in some of these devices. However, fortunately Free Software accounts?" (I have mixed feelings concerning this box at the end. I understand that the idea is to say that free software is not an utopia, it is used de facto. However, it leaves the feeling that there's nothing to worry about.)

5th page:
- "? Free Software is not about price, but liberty." -> "? Free Software is not about price, it is about liberty."

Last page (back cover):
- "This flyer was printed by..." -> "This flyer is from?" (why printed? I could print some copies myself and distribute it.)
- "?digital society." -> "?information society." (Some years ago I worked in information society statistics. "Information society" was the term used internationally in Europe.)
- "? share and improve?" -> take out the bold of the "and" word
- "? to shape technology as you see fit." -> "? to adapt technology to fit your needs." ("Shape" sounds to me as changes at the design phase, when we mean having the right to change it after done. "As you see fit" sounds a bit like arbitrary changes and referring to needs make the message stronger.)
- "Donations are critical to our strength and help us to act autonomous." -> "Donations are critical for us to continue our work and help keep the Foundation independent. (I think that "independent" makes a stronger message than "autonomous". I suppose that's what you mean there. Also "keep our work" gives a more sense of urgency than "our strenght".

Best regards.
Fernando

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
Hi everyone,
The new English version of the tool leaflet is almost done. It is quite
different from the original German one.
--> the language needs to be proofread
--> the text (actual content) needs to be checked
Ideas / critics / remarks welcome!
here to have less conflicts. Just tell me if you need them.
--> colours are slightly different
--> I couldn't arrange the text nicely -> word breaks are very bad and
non consistent, as is justification. The little boxes look terrible if
justified, the big texts look messy if not justified
--> the third box of the third inside panel is special, if know how to
make it look better please tell me
Any other advice? Feedback?
Thanks!
Best,
Lucile
--
Lucile Falgueyrac - Free Software Foundation Europe
FSFE, Sch?nhauser Allee 6/7, 10119 Berlin
XMPP : lucile.falg at jabber.fsfe.org
Support FSFE! https://fsfe.org/
<tool-leaflet.pdf>_______________________________________________
Discussion mailing list
Discussion at fsfeurope.org
https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion

[Fernando Reis]

Hi Lucile

Post by Fernando Reis
- "? often badly restricted." -> "? often strongly restricted." (Badly restricted would mean wrongly done.)

I chose to use "heavily restricted" in the new version. What do you think?

Even better.

Post by Fernando Reis
- "?digital society." -> "?information society." (Some years ago I worked in information society statistics. "Information society" was the term used internationally in Europe.)

Mh, this is a long debate... I also like information society but digital
society is what is used everywhere on the website fsfe.org "Free
Software Foundation Europe is a non-profit organisation dedicated to
promoting Free Software, working to build a free digital society." so
I'll stick to it for now

I agree with you. Terminology should be consistent across the website.

Cheers.
Fernando

[Lucile Falgueyrac]

Hi Fernando, Jann, Heiki,

Thank you for commenting, you had very valuable points. I implemented
some changes (the ones that made sense to me).

Post by Fernando Reis
I recently joined the fellowship and have not contributed before to the work of the Foundation.
I would like to thank you and show my appreciation for your work.

Welcome and thanks for your contribution!

Post by Fernando Reis
- "? often badly restricted." -> "? often strongly restricted." (Badly restricted would mean wrongly done.)

I chose to use "heavily restricted" in the new version. What do you think?

Post by Fernando Reis
Non-free proprietary software is still used in some of these devices. However, fortunately Free Software accounts?"
(I have mixed feelings concerning this box at the end. I understand that the idea is to say that free software is not an utopia, it is used de facto. However, it leaves the feeling that there's nothing to worry about.)

Valuable point, I added your sentence.

Post by Fernando Reis
- "?digital society." -> "?information society." (Some years ago I worked in information society statistics. "Information society" was the term used internationally in Europe.)

Mh, this is a long debate... I also like information society but digital
society is what is used everywhere on the website fsfe.org "Free
Software Foundation Europe is a non-profit organisation dedicated to
promoting Free Software, working to build a free digital society." so
I'll stick to it for now

Did I miss something?

Thank you again,
Lucile
--
Lucile Falgueyrac - Free Software Foundation Europe
FSFE, Sch?nhauser Allee 6/7, 10119 Berlin
XMPP : lucile.falg at jabber.fsfe.org

Support FSFE! https://fsfe.org/
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[Alessandro Rubini]

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
Did I miss something?

It looks very good to me, but "software" like all "*ware" is not
countable. It is a substance, like "stuff", "butter", "milk", "crap".
Use is wrong in several places of the leflet and should be
fixed accordingly.

/alessnadro

[Lucile Falgueyrac]

Hi Alessandro and everyone

Post by Alessandro Rubini

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
Did I miss something?

It looks very good to me, but "software" like all "*ware" is not
countable. It is a substance, like "stuff", "butter", "milk", "crap".
Use is wrong in several places of the leflet and should be
fixed accordingly.

Mh, I'm very confused now...
Please find confusing sentences with "software" bellow:

* Free Software gives us essential freedom that other type of software
deny us.

* Free Software can be used as tool.

* There is an incredible number of Free Software available

* However, fortunately Free Software accounts for a large proportion of
those embedded software.

Are those sentences ok? Sorry for the very basic question. I'll ask a
native English speaker to proofread the whole leaflet and improve the
wording, but I'd like to understand..

Best,
Lucile

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[Heiki &quot;Repentinus&quot; Ojasild]

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
Are those sentences ok? Sorry for the very basic question. I'll ask a

No.

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
* Free Software gives us essential freedom that other type of software
deny us.

Either "other type*s* of software deny us" or "other software denies us".

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
* Free Software can be used as tool.

"as a tool"

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
* There is an incredible number of Free Software available

"incredible amount" or "incredible number of Free Software packages"

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
* However, fortunately Free Software accounts for a large proportion of
those embedded software.

No "those".

I only commented on the grammar; however, I am inclined to believe that
some of the sentences could be rephrased to sound more natural and
intuitive.

[Lucile Falgueyrac]

Thanks for your quick answers Alessandro, Heiki

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
Mh, I'm very confused now...

It will be proofread before printing and publication

Best,
Lucile
--
Lucile Falgueyrac - Free Software Foundation Europe
FSFE, Sch?nhauser Allee 6/7, 10119 Berlin
XMPP : lucile.falg at jabber.fsfe.org

Support FSFE! https://fsfe.org/

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[Felix C. Stegerman]

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
Thanks for your quick answers Alessandro, Heiki

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
Mh, I'm very confused now...

It will be proofread before printing and publication
Best, Lucile

Is the leaflet available yet (electronically or otherwise)? I don't
seem to be able to find anything in the subversion repository (or
anywhere else). If it's done, a pdf would be nice. If not yet done,
I'd be happy to proofread/comment (unless it's already perfect ;-).

- - Felix

- --
Felix C. Stegerman
vice-coordinator, dutch fellowship group of fsfe

[Lucile Falgueyrac]

Hi

Post by Felix C. Stegerman
Is the leaflet available yet (electronically or otherwise)? I don't
seem to be able to find anything in the subversion repository (or
anywhere else).

It's in Internal/Artworks/Fellowship/tool-leaflet-inside.en.svg and
/tools-leaflet-cover.en.svg

Do you have access?

Post by Felix C. Stegerman
If it's done, a pdf would be nice. If not yet done,
I'd be happy to proofread/comment (unless it's already perfect ;-).

I don't think that it's perfect.. A friend promises to improve the
language with his native skills but I got nothing so far.

Thanks for caring :)

Lucile
--
Lucile Falgueyrac - Free Software Foundation Europe
FSFE, Sch?nhauser Allee 6/7, 10119 Berlin
XMPP : lucile.falg at jabber.fsfe.org

Support FSFE! https://fsfe.org/

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[Felix C. Stegerman]

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
Hi

Post by Felix C. Stegerman
Is the leaflet available yet (electronically or otherwise)? I
don't seem to be able to find anything in the subversion
repository (or anywhere else).

It's in Internal/Artworks/Fellowship/tool-leaflet-inside.en.svg
and /tools-leaflet-cover.en.svg
Do you have access?

Doesn't seem so. But I could be doing something wrong. I haven't
used the fsfe's subversion repos before (or subversion for that
matter). I was able to browse the /artwork repo (which has some other
flyers and is mentioned on the wiki).

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac

Post by Felix C. Stegerman
If it's done, a pdf would be nice. If not yet done, I'd be happy
to proofread/comment (unless it's already perfect ;-).

I don't think that it's perfect.. A friend promises to improve the
language with his native skills but I got nothing so far.
Thanks for caring :)

My pleasure. I'll look at it tomorrow -- I've been far too busy
today. I would also like to help with other translations in future
(when I'm not so busy) as I'm tri-lingual (English, Dutch, German).

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
Lucile

- - Felix

- --
Felix C. Stegerman
vice-coordinator, dutch fellowship group of fsfe

[Felix C. Stegerman]

Hi all,

I've made some improvements to the English tool leaflet.
I've also translated the leaflet to Dutch.

@Maurice I'd appreciate it if you could give (me) some feedback on the
Dutch version. It could probably use a second pair of eyes.

I've put everything in a private gist at:
https://gist.github.com/obfusk/5ad471befc5f04161a38

Let me know what you think.


- - Felix

- --
Felix C. Stegerman
vice-coordinator, dutch fellowship group of fsfe

[Lucile Falgueyrac]

Hi

Post by Felix C. Stegerman
I've made some improvements to the English tool leaflet.
I've also translated the leaflet to Dutch.

Thanks!

Post by Felix C. Stegerman
Let me know what you think.

I changed alignments and margins (for the English one). It's now in the
advocacy fellowship svn repo [1] and will be printed soon.

Best,
Lucile

[1] svn --username yourusername co https://svn.fsfe.org/advocacy/trunk
yourlocaldir
--
Lucile Falgueyrac - Free Software Foundation Europe
FSFE, Sch?nhauser Allee 6/7, 10119 Berlin
XMPP : lucile.falg at jabber.fsfe.org

Support FSFE! https://fsfe.org/

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[Matthias Kirschner]

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
I changed alignments and margins (for the English one). It's now in the
advocacy fellowship svn repo [1] and will be printed soon.

It is also accessible read only on http://download.fsfe.org/advocacy/.

Regards,
Matthias

[Felix C. Stegerman]

Post by Felix C. Stegerman
Hi all,
I've made some improvements to the English tool leaflet. I've also
translated the leaflet to Dutch.
@Maurice I'd appreciate it if you could give (me) some feedback on
the Dutch version. It could probably use a second pair of eyes.
https://gist.github.com/obfusk/5ad471befc5f04161a38
Let me know what you think.

I've made a few small improvements to the Dutch version -- and updated
the gist accordingly.

@Maurice: have you had time to look at it yet?


- - Felix

- --
Felix C. Stegerman
vice-coordinator, dutch fellowship group of fsfe

[Matthias Kirschner]

Lucile,

Post by Felix C. Stegerman
Doesn't seem so. But I could be doing something wrong. I haven't
used the fsfe's subversion repos before (or subversion for that
matter). I was able to browse the /artwork repo (which has some other
flyers and is mentioned on the wiki).

Can you move the leaflet into the Advocacy SVN?
https://www.wiki.fsfe.org/FellowshipServices/Subversion So everybody
with an account can access it.

Regards,
Matthias

[Alessandro Rubini]

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
* Free Software gives us essential freedom that other type of software
deny us.

Ok.

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
* Free Software can be used as tool.

"as tool" sounds bad to me, but it's not a problem with "software".

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
* There is an incredible number of Free Software available

"amount" instead of "number".

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
* However, fortunately Free Software accounts for a large proportion of
those embedded software.

"the" instead of "those". Just think about "water" or any other substance:
you can count applications, programmes, tools, frameworks, packages, but
not softwares. Just like you can count liters, bottle, glasses, brands,
but you cannot count waters.

Post by Lucile Falgueyrac
Are those sentences ok? Sorry for the very basic question. I'll ask a
native English speaker to proofread the whole leaflet and improve the
wording, but I'd like to understand..

I hope the point is clear now. It's good to have somebody proofread
the leaflet: I was raising the point about misuse of "software"
because misuse is pretty common in local translations (including my
country).

Regards
/alessandro