Domain names

[Tanguy Ortolo]

Hello all,

This is something I identified some time ago when I started subscribing
to the FSFE, so here it is.

I have seen two domain names in use by the FSFE: <fsfe.org> and
<fsfeurope.org>. I guess that would be a kind of historic legacy, but I
think it weakens the image of FSFE somehow, because even though these
domain names may be used in some interchangeable way, people cannot help
from hesitating, not knowing if this is FSFE <http://www.fsfe.org/> or
FSF Europe <http://www.fsfeurope.org/>. This goes for the Web site, but
also for any other service: mailing-lists, Jabber or whatever.

Has one of these domain names been chosen eventually? And do you think
not that it would be advisable to actively retire the other one?

[Matthias Kirschner]

Hi Tanguy,

Post by Tanguy Ortolo
I have seen two domain names in use by the FSFE: <fsfe.org> and
<fsfeurope.org>. I guess that would be a kind of historic legacy, but I
think it weakens the image of FSFE somehow, because even though these
domain names may be used in some interchangeable way, people cannot help
from hesitating, not knowing if this is FSFE <http://www.fsfe.org/> or
FSF Europe <http://www.fsfeurope.org/>. This goes for the Web site, but
also for any other service: mailing-lists, Jabber or whatever.

I agree that this is confusing. I suggested in the past to get switch
with all e-mail, mailinglists, jabber to fsfe.org, and not use
fsfeurope.org any more. If and how to do this exactely should be
implemented is currently discussed by our European core team
(team at fsfeurope.org). As everybody you are welcome to send your position
on this to them, or even better, send a summary of the outcome from
this dicsussion to the list.

Post by Tanguy Ortolo
Has one of these domain names been chosen eventually? And do you think
not that it would be advisable to actively retire the other one?

For the background: fsfeurope.org was used at the beginning. Than we
registered fsfe.org. We used that as a short sexy domain for the
Fellowship, when we started it in 2004. Than we changed our outside
communication from "FSF Europe" to FSFE. Than people got confused,
because they expect that fsfe.org is the website of FSFE, not just of
the Fellowship. So we changed that and made fsfe.org the main website.
But e-mail, jabber, mailing lists were not changed.

I hope you understand it a bit better now.

Regards,
Matthias

[MJ Ray]

Matthias Kirschner <mk at fsfe.org>

Post by Matthias Kirschner
For the background: fsfeurope.org was used at the beginning. Than we
registered fsfe.org. We used that as a short sexy domain for the
Fellowship, when we started it in 2004. Than we changed our outside
communication from "FSF Europe" to FSFE. [...]

I feel that was a backwards step because "FSF" and "FSF Europe"
reinforced each others names and some technical audiences already knew
FSF. FSFE is just another non-intuitive ETLA which has to be expanded
more often.

But if you go ahead with fsfe.org as a primary, please keep the
List-Id values the same on the mailing lists. I think that might
require fixing an old bug in Mailman, to make List-Id configurable and
independent of the email domain, but it would be good to fix that at
last.

Hope that informs,

[William from Texas]

Seeing as fsfeurope.org redirects to fsfe.org, I don't think the brand is
being weakened. "FSFE" would seem to be the leading acronym, with "FSF
Europe" maybe used at times to show stronger affiliation as "a European
branch of the FSF". Not having reviewed any charters, though, I can't be
sure how accurate the real situation is or should be.

Compare:
- "FSFE initiated talks with Danish MEPs." -> An org called FSFE is
talking with MEPs in Denmark.
- "FSF Europe initiated talks with Danish MEPs." -> The FSF is talking
with Danish MEPs through it's EU office.

A primary acronym should be official, but a balanced "E vs Europe" mix can
be useful in raise public awareness depending on context.

Post by MJ Ray
Matthias Kirschner <mk at fsfe.org>

Post by Matthias Kirschner
For the background: fsfeurope.org was used at the beginning. Than we
registered fsfe.org. We used that as a short sexy domain for the
Fellowship, when we started it in 2004. Than we changed our outside
communication from "FSF Europe" to FSFE. [...]

I feel that was a backwards step because "FSF" and "FSF Europe"
reinforced each others names and some technical audiences already knew
FSF. FSFE is just another non-intuitive ETLA which has to be expanded
more often.
But if you go ahead with fsfe.org as a primary, please keep the
List-Id values the same on the mailing lists. I think that might
require fixing an old bug in Mailman, to make List-Id configurable and
independent of the email domain, but it would be good to fix that at
last.
Hope that informs,
--
MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op.
http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer.
In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/
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[Kostas Boukouvalas]

Seeing as fsfeurope.org <http://fsfeurope.org> redirects to fsfe.org
<http://fsfe.org>, I don't think the brand is being weakened. "FSFE"
would seem to be the leading acronym, with "FSF Europe" maybe used at
times to show stronger affiliation as "a European branch of the FSF".
Not having reviewed any charters, though, I can't be sure how accurate
the real situation is or should be.
- "FSFE initiated talks with Danish MEPs." -> An org called FSFE is
talking with MEPs in Denmark.
- "FSF Europe initiated talks with Danish MEPs." -> The FSF is talking
with Danish MEPs through it's EU office.

This would be very misleading, given that FSFE is not the European
branch of the FSF. Even FSF, at their page calls it "sister
organisation". (See above the www badges at the bottom of the page).

A primary acronym should be official, but a balanced "E vs Europe" mix
can be useful in raise public awareness depending on context.

In many ways we could raise public awareness. We could for example make
a hack and rename FSFE to EFSF so journalists, governments, the whole
world could take it for European Financial Stability Facility and so we
could be famous in dt.

But how effective this would be for GNU/Linux to raise its market share
on desktops more than 1,2%?

[William from Texas]

We could change the name to "Fellowship of the Software Freedom e.V (FSFE)"
and address the fellow membership issue as well!

Post by Kostas Boukouvalas

Seeing as fsfeurope.org <http://fsfeurope.org> redirects to fsfe.org
<http://fsfe.org>, I don't think the brand is being weakened. "FSFE"
would seem to be the leading acronym, with "FSF Europe" maybe used at
times to show stronger affiliation as "a European branch of the FSF".
Not having reviewed any charters, though, I can't be sure how accurate
the real situation is or should be.
- "FSFE initiated talks with Danish MEPs." -> An org called FSFE is
talking with MEPs in Denmark.
- "FSF Europe initiated talks with Danish MEPs." -> The FSF is talking
with Danish MEPs through it's EU office.

This would be very misleading, given that FSFE is not the European
branch of the FSF. Even FSF, at their page calls it "sister
organisation". (See above the www badges at the bottom of the page).

A primary acronym should be official, but a balanced "E vs Europe" mix
can be useful in raise public awareness depending on context.

In many ways we could raise public awareness. We could for example make
a hack and rename FSFE to EFSF so journalists, governments, the whole
world could take it for European Financial Stability Facility and so we
could be famous in dt.
But how effective this would be for GNU/Linux to raise its market share
on desktops more than 1,2%?
--
FSFE Fellow

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[Heiki &quot;Repentinus&quot; Ojasild]

Post by William from Texas
We could change the name to "Fellowship of the Software Freedom e.V (FSFE)"
and address the fellow membership issue as well!

Aside from the initial legal trouble of dividing the FSFE, it would
bring extra costs (administering two organizations instead of one) and
increased friction. What advantages would it have?


Regards,

[MJ Ray]

William from Texas <williamfromtexas at gmail.com>

Post by William from Texas
Seeing as fsfeurope.org redirects to fsfe.org, I don't think the brand is
being weakened. "FSFE" would seem to be the leading acronym, with "FSF
Europe" maybe used at times to show stronger affiliation as "a European
branch of the FSF". Not having reviewed any charters, though, I can't be
sure how accurate the real situation is or should be.

I wasn't saying it was weakened - just that FSFE alone lacked the
reinforcement from FSF, so I feel it's slightly fiddlier to use
because it needs explanation to more people.

If you'd like to review it, the constitution is at
http://fsfe.org/about/ and I feel it shows how arbitrary all this is
in practice. FSFE theoretically means Free Software Foundation
Europe, but it's actually a part-democratic federal association (a
German e.V.) rather than a foundation (there are no founders with
special powers or rights AFAIK).

So given the name is arbitrary anyway, how did they arrive at FSFE
instead of FSF Europe?

Post by William from Texas
- "FSFE initiated talks with Danish MEPs." -> An org called FSFE is
talking with MEPs in Denmark.
- "FSF Europe initiated talks with Danish MEPs." -> The FSF is talking
with Danish MEPs through it's EU office.

Should there be any significant difference between the two?

Anyway, we should say something like "European Free Software
association FSFE talked with Danish Euro-parliamentarians" and avoid
EU TLAitis.

Post by William from Texas
A primary acronym should be official, but a balanced "E vs Europe" mix can
be useful in raise public awareness depending on context.

Indeed!