abolishing cash/banknotes?

[Daniel Pocock]

This bit of news has been getting around:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-24/bank-run-fears-continue-hsbc-restricts-large-cash-withdrawals

I don't think it is about a bank run, more likely it is about trying to
get everybody using electronic means of payment to feed more information
back to big data.

I was really shocked on my last visit to a student bar in London, all
the 18 year olds paying for each beer with their card. It seems that
younger people are growing into these habits without even thinking about
it but the bank in question couldn't wait for older generations to die
off and wants to force them into using plastic as well.

[David Gerard]

ZeroHedge is the NaturalNews of economic blogging. They have predicted
200 of the last 1 recessions.

The HSBC cash restriction is about pressure from the government after
HSBC was busted blatantly money-laundering for drug cartels. The
restriction does not apply to non-cash transactions. Despite
scaremongering from foolish people.

Post by Daniel Pocock
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-24/bank-run-fears-continue-hsbc-restricts-large-cash-withdrawals
I don't think it is about a bank run, more likely it is about trying to
get everybody using electronic means of payment to feed more information
back to big data.
I was really shocked on my last visit to a student bar in London, all
the 18 year olds paying for each beer with their card. It seems that
younger people are growing into these habits without even thinking about
it but the bank in question couldn't wait for older generations to die
off and wants to force them into using plastic as well.
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https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion

[Daniel Pocock]

Post by David Gerard
ZeroHedge is the NaturalNews of economic blogging. They have predicted
200 of the last 1 recessions.

Hence my opening comment that it is not really about a bank run, despite
the hype

Post by David Gerard
The HSBC cash restriction is about pressure from the government after
HSBC was busted blatantly money-laundering for drug cartels. The
restriction does not apply to non-cash transactions. Despite
scaremongering from foolish people.

That, too, is what I commented - getting more people to pay by
electronic means (making cash/anonymity appear shameful) seems to be the
objective

[Simo]

Post by Daniel Pocock

Post by David Gerard
ZeroHedge is the NaturalNews of economic blogging. They have predicted
200 of the last 1 recessions.

Hence my opening comment that it is not really about a bank run, despite
the hype

Post by David Gerard
The HSBC cash restriction is about pressure from the government after
HSBC was busted blatantly money-laundering for drug cartels. The
restriction does not apply to non-cash transactions. Despite
scaremongering from foolish people.

That, too, is what I commented - getting more people to pay by
electronic means (making cash/anonymity appear shameful) seems to be the
objective

It is more complex and at the same time, I believe, simpler, than that.

Cash is inconvenient for banks, it is hard/expensive to move around, can
be easily stolen, and requires costly procedures to handle.

In contrast numbers on a computer can be easily double checked, cannot
be stolen from a branch office as easily and can be transferred easily
between banks and customers.

So, although, I do not deny there are those that really like the idea of
tracking people, I think it is mostly due to cost-cutting.

You can certainly use prepaid, anonymous, credit cards, and the banks
would be as happy.

Simo.

[Thomas Jensch]

Hello,

Post by Simo
Cash is inconvenient for banks, it is hard/expensive to move around, can
be easily stolen, and requires costly procedures to handle.

Additionally it is way easier for the government to tax
electronic transactions. (And as we can see, banks + gov is quite an
alliance...)

mfg
Thomas Jensch

[Fernando Reis]

Hi,

Post by Thomas Jensch
Additionally it is way easier for the government to tax
electronic transactions. (And as we can see, banks + gov is quite an
alliance...)

Sorry, Thomas, but I'm not with you there. Using cash instead of payment
cards is, just like free software, about freedom and privacy, not about
avoiding taxes. As far as I'm concerned everyone should pay their due
taxes, if we wish continue receiving public services. You may disagree
with me but that's a completely different discussion.

[Florian Weimer]

Post by Daniel Pocock
That, too, is what I commented - getting more people to pay by
electronic means (making cash/anonymity appear shameful) seems to be
the objective

Cash is already heavily regulated, at least in countries with a stable
economy.

What has this to do with free software, by the way?

[Daniel Pocock]

Post by Florian Weimer

Post by Daniel Pocock
That, too, is what I commented - getting more people to pay by
electronic means (making cash/anonymity appear shameful) seems to be
the objective

Cash is already heavily regulated, at least in countries with a stable
economy.
What has this to do with free software, by the way?

How much of the software used for those electronic
currency/banking/payment transactions is free?

[Florian Weimer]

Post by Daniel Pocock
How much of the software used for those electronic
currency/banking/payment transactions is free?

It's generally owned and developed by the users, so it's free software
according to most definitions.

[Daniel Pocock]

Post by Florian Weimer

Post by Daniel Pocock
How much of the software used for those electronic
currency/banking/payment transactions is free?

It's generally owned and developed by the users, so it's free software
according to most definitions.

That depends on how your definition of user

If the user is an average consumer or business, the User Interface
consists of an ATM, e-banking, credit card and the occasional paper
statement. There is not a lot of source code to be seen.

If you define user as the financial institution then it is a different
story.

[Tobias Platen]

Post by Daniel Pocock

Post by Florian Weimer

Post by Daniel Pocock
That, too, is what I commented - getting more people to pay by
electronic means (making cash/anonymity appear shameful) seems to be
the objective

Cash is already heavily regulated, at least in countries with a stable
economy.
What has this to do with free software, by the way?

How much of the software used for those electronic
currency/banking/payment transactions is free?
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Most ATMs run with nonfree software (mostly Windows XP), but this does
not seem to be a problem for Richard Stallman:
"Likewise, I don't need to worry about what software is in a kiosk, pay
phone, or ATM that I am using. I hope their owners migrate them to free
software, for their sake, but there's no need for me to refuse to touch
them until then."

There is also a really old programming language called COBOL
http://jxself.org/cobol.shtml.
As most COBOL software is never distributed, developing COBOL programs
seems to be compatible with the free software movement.

Tobias Platen

[Daniel Pocock]

Post by Tobias Platen

Post by Daniel Pocock

Post by Florian Weimer

Post by Daniel Pocock
That, too, is what I commented - getting more people to pay by
electronic means (making cash/anonymity appear shameful) seems to be
the objective

Cash is already heavily regulated, at least in countries with a stable
economy.
What has this to do with free software, by the way?

How much of the software used for those electronic
currency/banking/payment transactions is free?
_______________________________________________
Discussion mailing list
Discussion at fsfeurope.org
https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion

Most ATMs run with nonfree software (mostly Windows XP), but this does
"Likewise, I don't need to worry about what software is in a kiosk, pay
phone, or ATM that I am using. I hope their owners migrate them to free
software, for their sake, but there's no need for me to refuse to touch
them until then."
There is also a really old programming language called COBOL
http://jxself.org/cobol.shtml.
As most COBOL software is never distributed, developing COBOL programs
seems to be compatible with the free software movement.

Actually, my job at Barlcays Capital was rolling out the Ganglia system
across the whole enterprise. Banks do use free software, usually in
those cases where it is really compelling to do so (Linux, Git, Jenkins
are other common examples, although Firefox has some way to go to
displace IE6 in some bigger corporates)

On the other hand, the issue with electronic payment is very different.
From the perspective of the user of the currency, they have little or
no control over just what happens to their data.

Just as Facebook reveals who your friends are, your financial
transactions reveal a lot about your economic preferences (e.g. where
you eat, whether you go to the pub every night/every weekend).

People concerned about these wider technology issues would see the move
away from cash as something similar to banning ToR and forcing everybody
to browse the web while logged into Google.